Kenmore Fridge & Freezer Are Warmer Than Normal

Refrigerator & Freezer Repair
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Howdy all,

I have a Kenmore fridge - about 12 years old - that is eating my lunch!

According to the thermocouple on the DVM, the avg temps over a several hour period were: freezer is 25.2°F and the fridge is 60.1°F.

A couple weeks ago the ice maker (a "CAN9", in freezer compartment, not door) quit. Not filling ice tray. I tested and replaced the pressure solenoid because measured of spec. YouTube video said should around 500 - 1500 ohms. It was like 150, so I called it bad. Used a quality DVM for testing .

But wait! It gets worse! Probably within 48 hours of that time I noticed the fridge compartment was not as cool as should be.
Some additional symptoms:
Evaporator fan runs 24 x 7
Compressor runs " x "

I vacuumed coils on bottom of fridge, they were quite nasty. The coils are warm to the touch, but not hot. No big performance change after vacuum.

Two nights ago, in desperation I’ve "exercised" all controls (fridge temp, freezer temp, energy saver), then restored to max cool positions.

Yesterday, the fridge was down 10° to about ~ 50°. Interesting… Still… not cold enough, and no ice is making in the freezer.

Does this sound like a replaceable "part" issue or a Freon level issue (or either / neither!?)?

So do I want to have a "trained professional" come (and possibly tell me a need a new fridge!) or am I better off to save my $ towards a new one? Or is there a replaceable component I should look at / test first?

All hints, tips, suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Advance thanks!!

Pete

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I suspect you have an air flow issue. Can you hear a fan running in the freezer section? Can you see any frost on the back wall inside the freezer?

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Appliance Ninja said:
I suspect you have an air flow issue. Can you hear a fan running in the freezer section? Can you see any frost on the back wall inside the freezer?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, you’re the one & only reply I got! :slight_smile:

As of today, things are pretty much the same.

Fridge was averaging 50.5°F and freezer air at duct is 21.8°F. Ice cream near the front of the freezer compartment is semi-liquid. I checked the freezer compartment. Yes there is a fan blowing there, quite possibly all the time (every time I checked it). I didn’t see any frost on back wall of freezer compartment (should there be?).

What’s interesting to me, there’s no real change. Not getting worse or better. I’m thankful for that, but would like to get things back to normal.

Any further comments, ideas, etc., are GREATLY appreciated.

–Pete

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Appliance Ninja said:
I suspect you have an air flow issue. Can you hear a fan running in the freezer section? Can you see any frost on the back wall inside the freezer?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, you’re the one & only reply I got! :slight_smile:

As of today, things are pretty much the same.

Fridge was averaging 50.5°F and freezer air at duct is 21.8°F. Ice cream near the front of the freezer compartment is semi-liquid. I checked the freezer compartment. Yes there is a fan blowing there, quite possibly all the time (every time I checked it). I didn’t see any frost on back wall of freezer compartment (should there be?).

What’s interesting to me, there’s no real change. Not getting worse or better. I’m thankful for that, but would like to get things back to normal.

Any further comments, ideas, etc., are GREATLY appreciated.

–Pete

6

Can you remove the panel from the back of the freezer, inside the freezer section, please? Once removed, you will see an aluminum evaporator coil. Is the frost on that coil in one small area or evenly on the entire coil?

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Appliance Ninja said:
Can you remove the panel from the back of the freezer, inside the freezer section, please? Once removed, you will see an aluminum evaporator coil. Is the frost on that coil in one small area or evenly on the entire coil?

I will do this tonight and get back to you. I appreciate your patience and follow-through!

Cheers,

–Pete

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Thank you, I look forward to hearing from you!

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kudzu_kid said:
I will do this tonight and get back to you. I appreciate your patience and follow-through!

I managed to transfer all most of the frozen food from the freezer to a full size freezer ("spare") we have in the garage. I then got the back off (not an easy task for a non-appliance guy, but I did it!). Don’t think I broke anything! :slight_smile:

I had the freezer compartment door open for several minutes while I transferred food & disassembled (removed ice maker, etc). That said, once I got the back off, I would say the frost was pretty evenly distributed. I’m going to let the interior temp stabilize and see if I can snap a quick pict for you. As I recall, at least every "row" of the coil had frost on all or most of it.

What I don’t get is, if it were a Freon prob as some amateur friends have commented on, wouldn’t it have ALL leaked out by now? Even if it were a "slow leak". Not pretty suddenly go from "normal" op to mediocre op and just stay there. At least that doesn’t make sense to me, but I’m still learning! I make my living in IT, not appliance repair. I do have fair mechanical skills and above average electronics skills and training. No refrigeration tools though.

One thing no one’s commented on: Is it coincidence that the ice maker quit a day or two before we noticed the temp shift or is there something that tells the ice maker "Hey quit making ice, it won’t freeze anyhow, it’s too warm in here"? Or am I overthinking this (I do that a lot!).

Again my thanks for sticking with me on this!

Cheers,

–Pete

10

The ice maker will not run until the thermostat in it closes at around 15* F. If the frost pattern was even on the coil, it is not likely a refrigerant issue. Was the frost blocking the coil? Is the fan running fast to move the air?

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Is the compressor running all the time except when the unit goes into a defrost cycle.
Note that during defrost the compressor, it’s fan and the evaporator/freezer fan will all be off. defrost usually lasts about half an hour.
This may also be the case when the control thermostat opens.
You can usually hear it but should also be able to feel it vibrating.

Is the condenser/compressor fan running?
It should be on whenever the compressor is on.

If the compressor is cycling then it is probably a control problem.

If the compressor is on all the time then it could be :
A sealed system problem. Compressor or low freon see below.
A defrost problem. The coils get clogged solid with ice and frost so that the evaporator fan cannot pull air through them and therefore it does not cool down enough.
An evaporator/freezer fan problem either not running or not running correctly.
A large door seal leak.

Below is a link with info on a compressor running all the time.
Take a look at the example pictures half way down the page.
http://www.applianceaid.com/refrigerator-not-cold-enough.php

Note when checking for frost on the evaporator coils make sure that the compressor has run for at least an hour. If you check them during or shortly afted a defrost cycle then you may reach the wrong conclusion.

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denman said:
Is the compressor running all the time except when the unit goes into a defrost cycle.
Note that during defrost the compressor, it’s fan and the evaporator/freezer fan will all be off. defrost usually lasts about half an hour.
This may also be the case when the control thermostat opens.
You can usually hear it but should also be able to feel it vibrating.

Is the condenser/compressor fan running?
It should be on whenever the compressor is on.

If the compressor is cycling then it is probably a control problem.

If the compressor is on all the time then it could be :
A sealed system problem. Compressor or low freon see below.
A defrost problem. The coils get clogged solid with ice and frost so that the evaporator fan cannot pull air through them and therefore it does not cool down enough.
An evaporator/freezer fan problem either not running or not running correctly.
A large door seal leak.

Below is a link with info on a compressor running all the time.
Take a look at the example pictures half way down the page.
http://www.applianceaid.com/refrigerator-not-cold-enough.php

Note when checking for frost on the evaporator coils make sure that the compressor has run for at least an hour. If you check them during or shortly afted a defrost cycle then you may reach the wrong conclusion.

Good Morning Appliance Ninja and Denman,

Attached are a couple quick picts I took on my phone last night, the door had been closed about 30 minutes (after I took the back cover off the freezer compartment - whence I had the freezer door open for a bit). After reading Denman’s note, I probably didn’t wait long enough.

That fan in the freezer seems to run most of the time. It runs fast, probably normal speed I guess.

I’ll check out that link and re-read your postings asap. These pictures may or may not tell the story I guess, depending on when in the defrost cycle these pictures were taken. I’ve checked it a few times, and never see the coils snow white at all… just a very thin coating / "dusting".

Let’s see if I can share these picts:

Sorry those are so gigantic! I’ll try to resize in any future postings. But maybe they’ll give a little useful detail as to what we’re looking at.

Thanks for any / all help guys!

Cheers,

–Pete

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It is hard to tell from the picture, is the top of the coil frosted? What is the freezer temperature averaging?

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A picture of the entire coil may be helpful to us.

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I’ll try to post some better picts & average fridge and freezer temps tonight / tomorrow.

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[COLOR="Blue"]Hi Guys!

I truly appreciate the help.

A few updates & thoughts for the discussion:

Let me answer some of Denman’s questions first:
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denman said:
Is the compressor running all the time except when the unit goes into a defrost cycle.
Note that during defrost the compressor, it’s fan and the evaporator/freezer fan will all be off. defrost usually lasts about half an hour.
This may also be the case when the control thermostat opens.
You can usually hear it but should also be able to feel it vibrating.

I believe the compressor is running way more than it should. Only once in the past week have I even heard the compressor cycle down (shut off - and only briefly. I didn’t time it though.). But the vast majority of the time, it’s running, as is the compressor fan, and I have yet to see the evaporator coil fan shut off.

denman said:
Is the condenser/compressor fan running?
It should be on whenever the compressor is on.

If the compressor is cycling then it is probably a control problem.

[COLOR="Blue"]As above, it’s probably running 99% (or more) of the time. The only time I’ve really heard it shut down is when I crank the thermostat to the OFF position.
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denman said:
If the compressor is on all the time then it could be :
A sealed system problem. Compressor or low freon see below.

That was my first initial fear. What I can’t explain is how things went from working to not working well at all in a very short time. Supposing it IS a Freon problem - is it WORTH repairing (vs. new fridge)? So I spend, what? $200? $300 - to have someone come and charge it. For how long? But then what? Maybe the compressor shells out. BUT… that said… if it’s just a $50 part or something, I’m game to replace it. The $ is tight right now… I just wish there was a way for a consumer to test this. Even a momentary test / bypass or something I could do to prove this one way or another.

denman said:
A defrost problem. The coils get clogged solid with ice and frost so that the evaporator fan cannot pull air through them and therefore it does not cool down enough.
An evaporator/freezer fan problem either not running or not running correctly.
A large door seal leak.

[COLOR="Blue"]I don’t think this (defrost problem) is the problem I’m having. Per the pictures already posted, and new ones I’m about to post… no coil clogging frost is ever present. In fact, any frost at all is very "minimal" - no artic snow/frost action here. As above, evap coil fan spinning fast & furious - all the time as far as I know. Here are a couple fresh picts.

This first one shows a overall of the evaporator coils:

This next one shows the overall compartment & fan - as you can see, fan is on & spinning fast & furious.

[/COLOR]

denman said:
Below is a link with info on a compressor running all the time.
Take a look at the example pictures half way down the page.
http://www.applianceaid.com/refrigerator-not-cold-enough.php

This was a useful site. I’m still working my way through some of the tests. One thing they mentioned was testing the thermistor. See the new picts I’m posting here. See what’s circled / annotated here:

denman said:
Note when checking for frost on the evaporator coils make sure that the compressor has run for at least an hour. If you check them during or shortly afted a defrost cycle then you may reach the wrong conclusion.

[COLOR="Blue"]I waited at least an hour (though compressor is essentially always running).

As of tonight:

Average Fridge temp (measured over an hour via thermocouple on DVM with AVG function on) was: 51.8°F

Average Freezer temp (ditto) was: 25.4°F

Just an aside, the measurements are made with a brand new (less than a month old and freshly calibrated) Fluke DVM, with a J/K thermocouple lead. The temps I’m measuring seem to agree with what I’m "feeling" with my hand just seems way less than really cold freezer or fridge. Milk is spoiling quickly, etc.

Again, I can’t thank you enough for your help and patience while I work through this.

–Pete
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17

The part you tagged is not a thermistor.

It is a thermostat.
It is part of the defrost circuit.
It is closed when frozen and opens just above freezing.

FYI: The defrost cycle is a fixed time usually around 30 minutes.
But lets say all the frost ice has melted off the coils in 15 minutes. The defrost thermostat opens killing power to the defrost heater. The defrost cycle then continues with the heater off. This prevents excessive heat from being generated during defrost.

Looking at your pictures I would say that you have a sealed system problem.
there should be a lot more frost on the coils after an hour of running.

This will be an expensive repair as you need a pro.

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Appliance Ninja said:
The ice maker will not run until the thermostat in it closes at around 15* F. If the frost pattern was even on the coil, it is not likely a refrigerant issue. Was the frost blocking the coil? Is the fan running fast to move the air?

[COLOR="Blue"]And this is what made me think it’s probably wasn’t a Freon prob. There was a very light coating of frost - pretty evenly - on the coils. The $1,000 question: It’s stayed the same, so if there were a leak, wouldn’t it have leaked out by now?

Thanks for the info on the icemaker vis-a-vis its thermostat! That explains why it quit working. That was actually our first visible sign that we had a problem. The temp issue became more apparent a day or two later. I was curious if the icemaker was somehow "smart enough" to quit due to compartment temp. Apparently it is.

Denman highlights the other side of the coin with his most recent post – I was curious if there shouldn’t be MORE frost going on, or if maybe it was stuck in a defrost mode. But… thanks to you folks here… if I understand this correctly, the compressor doesn’t run during defrost.

:frowning: <Heavy sigh!> :frowning:

Guess with a 10+ year old fridge, I probably should be looking for a new fridge now… :eek: Not the news I was hoping for, but I don’t shoot the messengers! :wink:

Again, thanks to ApplianceNinja & Denman for your help guys. Maybe Craigslist for a good used unit?! (I’ll bring thermocouple with me! :smiley: )

Cheers,

–Pete
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Can’t thank you enough, Denman… If you or ApplianceNinja ever have any PC issues, feel free to message me directly (if this site has a facility to do that) and I’ll help any way I can! You guys rock. Not the news I wanted, but it was the news I needed!

Cheers,

–Pete