Kenomre front loader wont final spin

Washer Repair
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1

Hello,

I have a problem with the following gently-used (maybe 1 load/wk) washing machine :

Kenmore 1999 Front load washer (Frigidair) Model 417.29042992

The other day with a normal load in it started banging terribly during the tumble cycle. It became violent and the machine even jumped off the floor! Heres the sequence of events :

  • Reading online, was convinced the drum spider arm had deteriorated since that seems to be common.

  • Dismantled entire machine to find spider arm INTACT, although dirty and caked w/stuff, some deterioration. Cleaned it.

  • Springs and shocks are all OK

  • Figured it must have been a terribly unblanced load to cause the jumping.

  • Put machine back together.

  • Now it does not ever final SPIN.

  • It starts spinning like it wants to do fast spin, but shuts down before getting up to speed.

  • Tumble cycle (both directions) works, although the tub assembly really moves a lot.

  • Since I’m not used to seeing the washer operate with the top off, maybe this is normal??

  • Tested motor windings according to spec sheet - all OK

  • Checked/cleaned drain boot - no blockages.

  • Checked door lock switch. Wax motor appears broken and does nothing when powered.

  • Bent the wax (auxiliary) contacts inside lock assembly to ‘fool’ the machine into thinking the wax motor works

  • Still NO SPIN cycle.

I think it might be the speed control board, but want to KNOW for sure before spending the $. I have a DIAGNOSTIC STRIP CIRCUITS sheet from inside the machine which does have a section "If no motor rotation in low/fast spin", but I cant figure out how to use it.

Can anyone help? How can I test the speed control or might it be something else? Is there any ‘switch’ or ‘fuse’ that might have gotten triggered from the violent spinning that disabled the fast spin?

Help!

Thanks, CJ

3

This service manual will show you how to check voltage to the speed control board. It is not a perfect test, but it will increase the probability that replacing the board will fix your problem.

It is not likely the vibration would have harmed your board, but boards do not like heat, moisture or movement, all of which is present in a washer so it is possible that did cause your problem.

I am still concerned about your movement, so use the service manual to recheck everything before you put money into a board.

http://frigidaireservicetips.com/pdfs/360_TumbleActionWashers.pdf

4

Thanks much for the reply!

Unfortunately, while that manual is very CLOSE to what my machine looks like, the important part is different! Page 50 describes the test I need to do (tumble/no spin) but the picture on page 46 of the speed control board is not what I have.

My speed control board has 9 pin connector and a 4 pin connector, not 10/6, so I cant do any of those tests. Here is the pins I have, top down :

1 - yel/wh
2 - yel
3 - empty
4 - blu
5 - pink/blk
6 - wh/red
7 - brown
8 - purple
9 - empty

4-pin connector

1 - yel/blk
2 - blu/wh
3 - tan/blk
4 - wh

Do you have another manual or know how I can perform these tests with the wiring I have?

Thanks again…

5

Actually, the way this is going, having different board connectors IS EXPECTED! :frowning:

I have a speed selector switch that is NORMAL - FAST. Pg 9 of the manual, in the middle column, shows what I have.

Yes, the Tech sheet does have wire colors and I’ll try to trace it down. It also has a whole sequence of tests, but that is for the motor not running at all, which my motor does. It’ll take a while to go through this, and its not like this is a busy time of year or anything… :stuck_out_tongue:

I might not get to this before Christmas, but will post back when I can. Thanks for your help.

Attached is a pic of the "Diagnostic Strip Circuits". I’m not exactly sure how to use it, but I’ll see what I can do.

6

Hmm… Attachment didnt work. Trying again.

7

Well, I ended up having some time last night and did some more checking… I couldnt get much out of the 'Motor Movement" section of this Tech Sheet:

http://www.applianceaid.com/pictures/frigfrontloadermotorstuff.jpg

My motor DOES tumble, and the directions arent clear (step 3) as to using the disconnected CABLE to do the tests or using the socket on the board? My results :

Step 4 - I got 23V which makes no sense. I was also getting AC voltage readings on my meter when only 1 lead was connected and the other lead in the air. How is that possible?

Step 5 - 120V
Step 6 - 2.4 ohms

I double checked the motor windings and everything was perfect :

Stator full C8.2 - C8.3 ==> 0.9 ohms
Armature C8.5 - C8.5 ==> 1.3 ohms
TachoGen C8.6 - C8.7 ==> 14.6 ohms
Motor Thermal C2.1 - C2.2 ==> 0.1 ohm
Stator tapped C8.1 - C8.3 ==> 0.3 ohm

I assume this points to a good motor, although with one question : Would the Motor Thermal Protector be either 100% working or 100% bad? Meaning that since my motor tumbles (and has good ohmage (izzat a word?)) that the MTP cannot be the cause of my No-Fast-Spin problem? This is critical because when it tries to fast-spin it starts and then I hear a click on the speed control board that shuts the motor down, and I’m wondering if something is telling the board to shut the motor down, or the board is just bad and shutting it down on its own?

I ran a full ‘short wash’ cycle (no clothes), and confirmed that there is no S1+S1, S1, S2 or S3 spin. The motor only turns on/off in short bursts for the tumble action. I’d like to run some kind of test just to see the motor run fast for a while. Do you know of a way to ‘jump’ the motor like that? Heck I’d even put in a fast-spin button that I have to press by hand as this diagnosing is getting tiresome!

Thanks again for your help, and Happy Holidays to you…

CNR

PS - Oh, one good thing that I did is disconnect that OBNOXIOUS end-of-cycle buzzer! That thing is LOUD and scares the cat and my kids! Considering the final spin sounds like an airplane taking off from 3 houses away, its pretty obvious that the wash is done when the plane ‘lands’, so the buzzer is pretty much redundant and useless.

8

Well, you might want to borrow a meter from a friend or neighbor and re check things. Not sure how your meter is registering volts with a one leg connection, induction somehow?

Other than that it sounds like power is getting to the motor control board, which would indicate the board itself is the problem. It is possible your MTP is the cause, but unlikely. I think if your tests with another meter confirm your results you should replace the board.

Glad you got the buzzer fixed, we have cats but have not had the buzzer problem with them (other problems though)

Good luck, hope that works out and let us know. Seems like a lot of folks are following this post.

9

My first post with I hope some help for a few of the many owners of these Kenmore / Frigidaire machines that fail. We bought ours from Sears in November of 1999. It has the same troubleshooting guides, the 9 pin / 4 pin connectors, etc.

Our final spin just stopped one day - no preceding event that we were aware of. From troubleshooting, I thought it was the motor (high resistance across the brushes) but replacing it did not fix the problem. I believe the motor would have been needed soon anyway as the resistance across the brushes varied significantly on the old one and even when it worked, it sparked.

Once I began troubleshooting, the problem got worse - the motor often didn’t even turn during the tumble cycles. (I removed it from the machine, plugged it back in and let it cycle while out of the machine. I used masking tape around the shaft with black stripes to be able to easily see it turn.)
[COLOR=#333333]
After quite a few trips to the laundromat while I attempted to figure out what could be wrong, we were on the verge of buying a new machine and letting whoever delivered it haul away this one. It was completely baffling to me because occasionally the motor would turn during some of the steps and other times it would not turn at all.

Then I stumbled on the problem: Checking voltage at pin 4 of the 9 pin plug (9.4) during final spin, I had 120V but the motor would not spin. Then I checked the voltage on the board by attaching a clip to the end of the resistor that pin 4 was soldered to. I had 0V there. The reason: the contact on the edge connector was loose and often not passing the voltage to the circuit board. In testing the various pins, I had made it worse by bending the spring contacts on pins 2 through 6 (see photo - pin 1 is on the right). I cleaned the contacts on the board. I then worked my pocket knife along the edge of each tab in the connector and carefully twisted to raise the spring portion. Plugged it back in and used duct tape to help secure it. Ran it through a full cycle and HALLELUJAH - we are back in operation!

Over time, I suspect it is possible that one or more of the contacts will loosen again from the vibration. But this time I’ll know where to look.

This may or may not help CNR but I hope it will solve the problem for a few other folks and prevent trashing a repairable machine.

All the best and good luck!

Erik

P.S. In the course of trying to figure out how everything interacted, I built a spreadsheet to help me to see what is happening during each of the timer steps. I could manually advance the timer and observe / measure voltages. I have scanned and attached it. Provided as-is - no warranties - check for errors before believing it![/COLOR]

10

Well, thanks for sharing that with us. We try to tell everyone with a problem like this to check the wiring and the connections but sometimes we forget because such action is second nature for us, so your post is very helpful!

11

Well, that is a great post!

I think I speak for everyone when we say we admire your persistance in tracking down the problem and we are equally glad you got your payoff in the end, ie a fix that did not cost anything (which is as it should be given your time and effort)

I believe the problem you ran into with trying to get help was (1) the fact that these motor are rarely the problem and (2) no one really tests or repairs these things, they just replace them which is the cost effective way to do things given the cost of labor and the liklihood that a repair is not possible (although the person who thought he could not get the motor because it was Kenmore is someone who should not be in the business)

Thanks for the update and the pictures. Good luck going forward.

12

GLad you found it. I deleted my suggestion, which I typed before reading your last post.

13

The Kenmore 417.29042992 Washer was made by Kelvinator, owned by Electrolux and marketed under the Frigidaire brand name in the US in their Gallery series as the Frigidaire FWT445GC. It was also manufactured for other brand names. You can find the service manuals here:

[Frigidaire FWT445GC Front Load Washer Service Manual](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIiBNwRIV4NT0R3QS00dWlTS3c/edit"]Kenmore 417.29042992 Tumble Action Washer Service Manual[/URL], aka
[URL="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIiBNwRIV4NT0R3QS00dWlTS3c/edit)

I know this follow-up may be dated, but for anyone owning this machine and wanting to repair it, this information should prove useful. I’ve been looking for a service manual (aka repair manual) for quite awhile for this particular machine, which I continue to use and repair as necessary. I’d found some similar, but nothing that matched it totally. This one seems to match spot on.

Enjoy!