My topload GE WNSR3100W0WW started having problems agitating about 6 months ago. It initially would agitate slowly, but if I lightened the load or started the agitator by hand it would resolve the problem. Recently it stopped agitating altogether. At the start of the agitate cycle, it will hum for a few seconds, during which time I can see the tip of the motor shaft (sticking out past the pulley under the motor) spinning, however the pulley and belt do not rotate, or rotate slowly. Sometimes during this few seconds, the pulley WILL spin, and the whole gearbox apparatus (under the tub) will spin as well, but the gearbox and agitator will not reciprocate back and forth like I seem to remember it doing before (when working properly). It just spins in one direction for a few seconds then stops. When it goes into the spin cycle, it starts spinning right away, and goes to full speed very quickly (seems normal). I am a mechanical engineer, and like to work on cars/motorcycles, so I’m good with my hands. But I do not have experience working on appliances. Any adivce on troubleshooting or diagnosing this problem would be appreciated. Thanks!!
During agitation, the brake is engaged and the transmission shouldn’t rotate at all. The gears inside the transmission cause the back and forth motion of the agitator. In agitation mode, the motor pulley should be rotating in the opposite direction that it does in spin mode. Pull the agitator and make sure nothing is jammed underneath it. Pull the agitator coupler and make sure the internal splines aren’t stripped. You should be able to easily rotate the motor pulley by hand CCW (viewed from below) which should cause the agitator to rotate back and forth with no movement of the transmission housing.
Eric
I’m pretty sure that a few months ago when it first started acting up, during normal agitation, the transmission (i assume this is the gearbox-looking thing centered under the tub) would reciprocate back and forth? IE it would rotate 60 degrees or so clockwise (viewed from top) then counter-clockwise 30 degrees, then 60 CW, then 30 CCW (numbers are approximate). It would gradually rotate CW in a ‘two steps forward, one step back’ sort of pattern. Is this not normal? When in spin cycle, the gearbox would spin much faster, all CW. I will go out and try to spin the motor pulley by hand and report back. Also, how does one remove the agitator? does it simply lift out?
Ok, removed the agitator and the coupler. The coupler is not stripped out at all, either the tabs that interface with the agitator, or the splines that interface with the shaft coming up from the transmission. I can free rotate the motor pulley in both directions. When doing so, the entire transmission and the tub rotate as well.
By the sounds of it, it seems like maybe my transmission is the problem? I’m guessing thats not good, probably an expensive part…
If the transmission and basket rotate when you rotate the motor pulley in either direction, then yes, the transmission is bad.
http://www.appliancepartspros.com/ge-transmission-and-brake-wh38x10002-ap2046402.html
It may be repairable though. It sounds like the brake cam is jammed up. Can you freely rotate the transmission housing without laying a hand on the pulleys?
Eric
If i snake my arm up in there, I can grab the transmission housing and rotate it. When i do so, the pulleys rotate as well. If I use one hand to hold the pulleys stationary, and attempt to rotate the transmission housing, it will not rotate (the trans. and pulleys seem locked together, will not rotate relative to each other in either direction).
Use a flashlight and look up above the transmission pulley above the coil spring you will see the brake cam and brake hub. Are they together as you see in this photo or is there a gap between them? Do not rotate either pulley while making this observation.
Eric
There does appear to be a gap, maybe 1/16" or so. I have (attempted to) attach a photograph.
By the way, thank you SO MUCH for all your help with this, I REALLY appreciate it!!
Ok, the cam is stuck in the brake release position. You can replace the transmission or try to service it. You see that round ball in the gap in your photo? There are six of them placed around the cam and they sit in tapered grooves. Under that coil spring are two hubs, the pulley hub (lower) and the brake cam hub (upper). In spin mode the pulley hub is rotated such that it grips the lower half of the coil spring which causes the upper half of the coil spring to grip the brake cam hub which rotates the cam hub causing the balls to rotate out of the deep end of the tapered grooves into the shallow end of the grooves and the balls push up on the brake hub compressing the brake springs releasing the brake so that the whole transmission rotates. When spin stops, the brake spring pressure should cause the balls to move back into the deep end of the grooves allowing the brake to engage and that gap should be completely closed. Now when going in agitation direction, only the pulley hub rotates which drives the transmission input shaft. With the brake holding the transmission from moving, the input shaft drives the internal transmission gears which causes agitation. The problem you are having could be caused by dried up grease in the grooves or one or more of the balls is deformed. Normally, I would pull the tub assembly and flip it over to gain access to this area of the transmission. It is possible though to lay the machine down and remove the bottom panel. Iv’e never done it that way and I think it might be difficult to get the balls back in there once you’ve taken it all apart, cleaned it and greased it, with it laying on it’s side. I have some good photos of disassembly if you want to tackle it. You might get lucky if you just remove the pulley and coil spring, get some grease into that gap between the hubs and work the brake cam hub back and forth by hand to break it loose and functioning again. Just don’t get any grease on the hubs under the coil spring or inside the coil spring or it won’t grip anymore.
Eric
I think I understand what you’re saying. Any pictures you can provide would be very helpful. If it’s necessary to disassemble the trans to get the hubs/balls unstuck, is this fairly straightforward, or are there any ‘tricks’? Also, and reccomendations on grease to use? Standard axle grease, white lithium, etc? Thanks again for all the help, and if you could post up some of those pictures I’d really appreciate it.
Ok, here’s the bottom of the transmission. You need to first remove the LGS (limited grip spring). It’s like a slinky, just rotate it in the direction that would seem to unwind it while pulling and it should slide off.
Now, the pulley hub may be stuck on there pretty good so you may need to use a sharp putty knife to get between the hubs to work it loose and then use a couple screwdrivers, one on each side, to work it up and off the shaft.
Now you can slide the cam hub off. Be careful, some of the balls may be stuck to the underside of the hub. There is also a thin metal washer in between the cam hub and brake hub.
Now all you have to do is clean everything up real good, apply some white lithium grease into the grooves and put it back together. If you want to test it’s operation by hand, you will need to use a 1/2" washer and the pulley nut to hold the pulley hub on, otherwise, turning the brake cam will just push the pulley hub down rather than operate the brake.
Eric
Well got it all apart, got the roller-lockers unstuck, cleaned and re-lubed. Put it all together, and it does the exact same thing. The first time I tried putting it into agitate (selector set to ‘fast’), the whole basket and agitator slowly rotated (like a very slow spin cycle) for a few seconds before shutting off. I then put it into ‘gentle’ agitate and this time it just hummed for a few seconds (motor shaft spinning, but no rotation of motor pulley, belt, trans pulley, trans housing, agitator, etc).
Also, when I flipped over the tub with trans/motor attached to remove the pulley, I noticed a fair bit of water (maybe a cup or 2) pouring out of a hole on the top of the trans housing (which became the bottom when I flipped the assembly upside down). I have attached a picture of the stream of water pouring out. I assume this is bad news, and indicative of a broken seal/gasket. Safe bet this is the cause of my problems? I’m guessing the trans housing isn’t supposed to be full of rusty/soapy water?
Yep, that oil fill hole should have a plug in it. Looks like water got into the tranny through the agitator shaft seal from under the agitator and the plug got blown out from pressure. Still doesn’t explain why the brake mechanism isn’t working after you fixed it. Something else going wrong there. Looks like you need a new tranny. Expensive, but worth fixing in my opinion. Iv’e put a lot of money into my 11 year old GE top loader, including tranny and motor, as I refuse to buy the junk they are selling nowadays.
Eric
I found a trans for a little over $100 online… thats a lot cheaper than a $400 washer! One question though… what tool do you recommend for removing the large (1-1/16") left-handed nut on the top of the agitator shaft? This is required to separate the basket and trans. I can’t find anyone that sells a socket that large (so I could throw on my electric impact wrench) and the only crescent or pipe wrenches that are big enough to fit a nut that large are too long to fit inside the basket (their length is greater than the radius of the basket). After fighting it for an hour, I realized the fix you suggested didn’t require separating the basket/trans, so I just left it alone, but if I were to replace the whole trans I’d need to break this nut loose. Any suggestions?
Thanks again for all your help, you’ve been extremely helpful with your prompt replies and pictures!
A spanner wrench and 3lb hammer. Sometimes these nuts just won’t come loose and you have to cut them off. Dremel tool works easy for this as the nut is just made of aluminum. Chisel will work as well. BTW, that’s a 1 11/16", not 1 1/16" nut.
Pro TJ90TB123A Spanner Wrench - AppliancePartsPros.com
http://www.appliancepartspros.com/ge-hub-nut-wh2x1193-ap2045284.html
Eric