20 yr old workhorse agitates thru wash cycle, but does not spin thru spin cycle. The pump and motor work fine and drain machine, but drum does not spin. The transmission pulley and drive belt spin during agitate/wash cycle, but not during spin/drain cycle, and you can smell the belt slipping/burning around the spinning motor pulley. Thought I had worn belt(s) and replaced them (were original). Do I have a "mechanical" (clutch/transmission) problem or "electrical" (switch or relay) not engaging the transmission/clutch to spin the drum? How do I diagnose further? Thanks.
Tilt the machine back and rotate the main drive pulley clockwise by hand. The pulley should climb up the shaft, the brake should release and transmission and basket should rotate. If it works ok, you have a problem with the motor mount. If it won’t rotate by hand, could be the thrust bearing above the pulley, the radial bearing above the brake package or the tub bearing has seized.
Eric
— Begin quote from fairbank56;844572
Tilt the machine back and rotate the main drive pulley clockwise by hand. The pulley should climb up the shaft, the brake should release and transmission and basket should rotate. If it works ok, you have a problem with the motor mount. If it won’t rotate by hand, could be the thrust bearing above the pulley, the radial bearing above the brake package or the tub bearing has seized.
Eric
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Thanks for the reply Eric…the machine was already tilted and main drive belt removed. The main drive pulley under transmission does spin by hand clockwise about 1-1/4 revolutions, climbs up shaft and then binds as it tries to spin the tub (the same pulley spins freely counterclockwise by hand and properly engages/spins the agitator). Does this mean the bearings on either side of the brake/clutch are ok, brake is releasing and the tub bearing is seized/binding? Or is it possible that the brake is not releasing? After one clockwise revolution of the pulley, and after it climbed up, I can feel a bit of a "thump" before it spins a bit more then binds trying to turn the tub…at that point I apply some muscle and can see the tub trying to move (with a helper, no my arms are not that long!) Might that thump be the brake release?
I would open the top panel and take off the tub cover to check and make sure there’s no clothing caught between the tubs. If you don’t see anything, then you need to remove the brake package and then see if you can rotate the transmission or basket by hand. We use a special tool to remove the brake package, part number 038315, but it’s expensive unless you can find a used one. A hammer and drift pin might work but these things are usually difficult to break loose. You must first remove the pulley and the brake package retaining clip. Rotate brake package CCW to remove.
Eric
— Begin quote from fairbank56;844632
I would open the top panel and take off the tub cover to check and make sure there’s no clothing caught between the tubs. If you don’t see anything, then you need to remove the brake package and then see if you can rotate the transmission or basket by hand. We use a special tool to remove the brake package, part number 038315, but it’s expensive unless you can find a used one. A hammer and drift pin might work but these things are usually difficult to break loose. You must first remove the pulley and the brake package retaining clip. Rotate brake package CCW to remove.
Eric
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Thanks again Eric…am I removing the brake pkg to eliminate that as a possible problem? In other words, if after removing it, I can spin the basket, does that mean the brake is stuck/locked? If that is the case, how hard will it be to remove it?
I don’t think it’s the brake rotor that is the problem but it could be the radial bearing that is on top of the brake package. Removing the brake package eliminates these two as the problem if you still can’t rotate the basket without them. The brake package will likely be difficult to get loose. If there’s no clothing between the tubs, I think the most likely problem is the tub bearing.
Eric
— Begin quote from fairbank56;844646
I don’t think it’s the brake rotor that is the problem but it could be the radial bearing that is on top of the brake package. Removing the brake package eliminates these two as the problem if you still can’t rotate the basket without them. The brake package will likely be difficult to get loose. If there’s no clothing between the tubs, I think the most likely problem is the tub bearing.
Eric
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Ok, thanks…I have no experience with these and did not know how that brake was designed/worked. I do not think a piece of clothing got in there, but can check. I also tend to think it is the tub bearing, but might get lucky if it is bearing above the brake (if I can get the brake out). I have taken the pulley off and have a better idea now how that works and believe that the brake is engaging/disengaging the shaft/tub as it should. Puzzled about how that agitator works though.
— Begin quote from fairbank56;844646
I don’t think it’s the brake rotor that is the problem but it could be the radial bearing that is on top of the brake package. Removing the brake package eliminates these two as the problem if you still can’t rotate the basket without them. The brake package will likely be difficult to get loose. If there’s no clothing between the tubs, I think the most likely problem is the tub bearing.
Eric
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Ok Eric…it did not look/sound like a good idea to try to remove the brake assy w/o the right tool, so I considered buying one, but in the mean-time it wasn’t too hard to remove the basket and mounting stem assy to get the drum out and get at the tub bearing (soaked the threads with WD-40 then used heavy hammer/strong screwdriver to loosen the top nut). It is siezed (the center portion/bearing should spin freely within the rubber housing/mount right?). Also, the sleeve/liner came up with the bearing and is stuck in the bearing, but that’s ok, the new bearing comes with one and I don’t have to try to peel/pry it off the shaft.
No, the bearing does not spin within the rubber housing. It’s the sleeve that spins within the bearing. You need to take the outer tub out of the washer so that you can thoroughly clean the transmission shaft that the new sleeve fits over.
Eric
fairbank56 said:
No, the bearing does not spin within the rubber housing. It’s the sleeve that spins within the bearing. You need to take the outer tub out of the washer so that you can thoroughly clean the transmission shaft that the new sleeve fits over.Eric
So a new bearing has no moving/spinning parts…it is not a roller bearing? I already had the drum out and the bearing removed, that is how I knew that the sleeve/liner was stuck in the bearing. I will clean up the shaft w/fine emery, but it is pretty clean, as is the mating inner surface of the sleeve/liner. If I put the bearing w/sleeve on the shaft, it spins freely, as did the tub when I removed the 3 tub mounting bolts. The sleeve however is seized inside the bearing. So a "seized bearing" in this case is really not so much a seized bearing as a sleeve seized in the bearing? I was able to slowly work it free by repeatedly spraying it w/WD-40 and tapping it back & forth. I’m not understanding why this issue caused the machine not to work…what’s the difference if the sleeve can spin around the shaft (shaft spins in the sleeve) vs. the sleeve spinning in the bearing (shaft together w/sleeve spins in bearing)? Either way, the shaft is free to spin. I am either missing something or wondering now if it may be the brake or radial bearing?
No, it’s not a roller bearing. The inner face of the mounting stem tightens down on the sleeve and locks it to the transmission so that the sleeve rotates with the transmission within the bearing. The new bearing is oil impregnated and will release oil when it warms up due to friction between sleeve and bearing surface.
Eric
— Begin quote from fairbank56;844985
No, it’s not a roller bearing. The inner face of the mounting stem tightens down on the sleeve and locks it to the transmission so that the sleeve rotates with the transmission within the bearing. The new bearing is oil impregnated and will release oil when it warms up due to friction between sleeve and bearing surface.
Eric
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Excellent explanation! Thanks for sharing the knowledge. This explains a lot of things…after disassembly, sleeve was no longer "locked" to trans shaft, allowing it to spin freely around shaft because those two surfaces were not damaged/corroded, but if you lock it back on to shaft (all assembled) nothin’s movin’ because sleeve is seized/rusted to inner bearing surface. I have seen on you-tube videos that the sleeve often remains stuck on the shaft after disassembly, I now surmise that must be more common in cases where repair is being done due to leak as opposed to seized bearing. As you can see, I need to understand how things work or I don’t feel comfortable moving forward. I did re-install pulley after last post to manually check the brake and radial bearing operation…seems to work properly, spinning the transmission. Diagnosis is complete (I think haha)! Do I install the "lug" washer about 1/4 turn or so back from mating pulley lug when pulley has climbed up all the way and "bottomed out" at point it starts to turn trans?..or at point I seem to feel initial tension (spring?) while pulley is climbing (which is about 1/2 to 1 or so rotation from bottom out)? I’m guessing the initial tension is beginning of brake release? Thanks again Eric! Kudos to you for the quality and patience of your support!
p.s. I’m dying to open that trans case (I know there is oil in it) to see how the gearing causes the agitator "back/forth" motion during "reverse" spin…I know it’s only the shafts that are engaged, not the entire trans case, but I’m still not able to picture it in my mind. I’m guessing the large ring gear has teeth that are angled one direction on half and the opposite on the other half or something? Maybe I can study the exploded parts views better and/or find something on you-tube, etc. I know…I can put a clear cover on it and watch it during operation, make a video and post it…I know, too much time on my hands!
Install pulley and rotate clockwise til it climbs up and you feel resistance. Hold pulley at that point and place drive lug so that it is 3/8" from pulley lug.
Here’s a photo of the guts of the transmission. The large bevel gear drives a yoke assembly that moves the output shaft back and forth. The gear on the left is the input pinion gear. When drive pulley is driven CCW, it rotates input pinion gear while brake keeps transmission from moving. With drive pulley going CW, it climbs shaft to push up on brake rotor while simultaneously pulling down on transmission input shaft. That metal ring in photo above input pinion gear is locked to input shaft with set screw. The ring pulls down on the input pinion gear which has a two piece clutch between it and the transmission housing. This locks the input pinion to the housing and is what drives the transmission for spin with brake released.
Eric
Hi, Eirc,
After I removed the lip seal of the transmisson and can I pull up the shaft center (deep tub) of this transmission? Because my shaft center which its stop lug gear was broken by hammar.
lip seal part#: 207843
shaft cen (deep tub) part#: 22002342 (6-2300050 )
Not sure what you are asking. Is the stop collar broken or the pinion gear is broken? You can pull the agitator shaft out the bottom of the transmission to replace either.
Eric
Thanks, Eric,
It is the stop collar broken. I want to replace it.
Is there any way that I can pull the stop collar out the top of the transmission to replace?
Take the set screw out of the collar and then pull the shaft down far enough to clear the stop collar, pull stop collar out, place new one in and push shaft up through the collar.
Eric
Thanks, Eric,
I mean I would pull out the left stop collar shaft center of the your posted transmission picture.
What is the procedure I could follow it?
The pulley side of the transmission. My stop lug is OK but the shaft center (bottom of the transmission) where its gear is broken and is not matched with the stop lug.
So, I would buy this part#6-2300050 to replace it. But, I think I also need to pull out the lip seal from the trasmission. I am not sure is it right ?
I don’t know where your getting your part numbers from and your wording is very cryptic and difficult to understand. If you need to replace the center shaft, then yes, you need to replace the lip seal. Here is the parts manual for the washer.
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Repair%20Part%20List%20-%20LAT9593AAW.pdf
Eric