Oven would overheat and not shut off. After disconnecting power would work but upper oven would not turn on and an F2 error would come on. Replaced the Power Relay Board. Then upper oven still would not work and would get F2 error. I replaced the AP4090010 (71001872) - Electronic clock/oven control and am still getting the F2 error. Have also checked the oven temp sensor each time as well.
Any ideas what it could be? Seems like i am missing something but cannot think of what to check.
— Begin quote from isomc01;347214
Oven would overheat and not shut off. After disconnecting power would work but upper oven would not turn on and an F2 error would come on. Replaced the Power Relay Board. Then upper oven still would not work and would get F2 error. I replaced the AP4090010 (71001872) - Electronic clock/oven control and am still getting the F2 error. Have also checked the oven temp sensor each time as well.
Any ideas what it could be? Seems like i am missing something but cannot think of what to check.
— End quote
Isomc,
I presume this is the upper oven ?
Either way,
The F2 and the F5 code, indicate a problem in the oven temperature sensor
[part]AP4009009[/part]
Or the relay board, and wiring,
[part]AP4095668[/part]
You’ve already taken care of the ERC/control.
First, turn off the power to the wall oven
To test your sensor,
Access the relay board on the right side inner wall behind the panel,
Disconnect the two (purple)wire connector, the green colored plug is the upper oven sensor, and the orange colored plug is the lower oven sensor on the relay board.
Check for 1050 to 1100 ohms resistance across the wires in the connector(not the pins on the PCB)at room temperature.
(you could check both sensors as a comparison)
Check all the wires and connections for loose or damaged connections,
If all’s OK replace the relay board.
Good Luck,
I check the resistance of the connection to the board and it read correctly 1078. Also checked the wiring and the insulation around the coupling of the thermocouple and it appeared to be fine.
Already replaced relay board due to original F2 error. Now trying to correct F5 error.
Any other ideas?
— Begin quote from isomc01;347980
I check the resistance of the connection to the board and it read correctly 1078. Also checked the wiring and the insulation around the coupling of the thermocouple and it appeared to be fine.
Already replaced relay board due to original F2 error. Now trying to correct F5 error.
Any other ideas?
— End quote
Isomc,
The F5 error code indicates:
"Power to the element relays disabled in cook mode.
Components to check:
Now you need to do a "live" voltage test at the relays on the PRB.
and check the hi limit switch on the exhaust tube.
At the relay board, with power on,
Check the Black wire L1 to chassis ground for 120 VAC( the L1 terminal is on the front of the PRB, closest to you).
Check the double Red wires to chassis ground for 120 VAC (the L2 terminal is located on the back of the PRB.
Check L1 Black to double Red L2, for 240 VAC.
Any low or missing voltage indicates a bad wire from the terminal block, on the back of the oven, or improper power supply to the unit.
On the exhaust tubes, you’ll find hi limit switches mounted on the tubes,
Check both switches,
Black wire to chassis ground should have 120 VAC,
Orange wire to chassis ground should have 120 VAC.
Any missing voltage on the orange wire would indicate an oprn hi limit switch,
Any missing voltage on the black wire would indicate a bad wire or power supply to the unit.
With a bake cycle and temperature selected,
Check the Yellow wire(bake)terminal, on the back side, on the PRB for 120 VAC to chassis ground.
Missing voltage would indicate a bad bake relay(it didn’t close) or a power supply problem to the oven.
With a broil cycle and temperature selected,
Check the Purple wire(broil)terminal, on the back upper portion of the PRB for 120 VAC to chassis ground.
Missing voltage would indicate a bad broil relay, or a power supply problem to the oven.
I’m sure you have double checked all of your connections to the ERC and relay board.
I’m sure you’ll have it figured out after this check.
How do you access the exhaust tubes. I thought the hi limit thermostat was located on the floor of the access area that the relay boards are in above the top oven. Actually I thought i had checked the upper oven one for continuity but not for voltage.
— Begin quote from isomc01;348494
How do you access the exhaust tubes. I thought the hi limit thermostat was located on the floor of the access area that the relay boards are in above the top oven. Actually I thought i had checked the upper oven one for continuity but not for voltage.
— End quote
Isomc,
You are correct, I apologize, got my diagrams mixxed up, your hilimit switch is mounted to the bottom of the compartment.
As for voltage checks vs resistance/continuity checks,
You can read continuity through wires and some components, because they are not under a "load" and evrything is "static".
However, when the component is under a "load"(voltage passing through it)"active", if there is a problem with a loose wire or a damaged contact,etc. the voltage will not flow,and you won’t read 120 VAC to or through the component, because it is damaged, and the rest of the circuit is "dead", has no 120 VAC, and won’t work.
It is a slightly more dangerous process, due to possible shock hazards, but it is the most accurate way to test components and wiring.
I have checked all the recommendations and they all are reading correctly. I would point out though that the yellow bake wire and the purple broil wire both read 120 with and with out selecting the cycle and temperature.
But as soon as they are selected it goes to the f5 error message for all cycles on the upper oven.
What are your thoughts about it being the temperature sensor even though it reads correctly both at the end of the sensor wire and at the junction to the PRB at room temperatures.
— Begin quote from isomc01;348648
I have checked all the recommendations and they all are reading correctly. I would point out though that the yellow bake wire and the purple broil wire both read 120 with and with out selecting the cycle and temperature.
But as soon as they are selected it goes to the f5 error message for all cycles on the upper oven.
What are your thoughts about it being the temperature sensor even though it reads correctly both at the end of the sensor wire and at the junction to the PRB at room temperatures.
— End quote
OK,
So now that I know you have L1 voltage, through the hi limit and the elements, and the wiring to the relays on the PRB, everything there is OK.
Now disconnect the yellow and purple wires from the board, and check the empty terminals on the board to chassis ground for 120 VAC.
If you have 120 VAC, disconnect the touchpad ribbon, and re check for the 120 VAC, you may have a bad touchpad, but I would expect a F7 error code.
If you have 0 volts, program the ERC in a bake and broil mode and check for the 120 VAC , on the terminals or the PRB. If you have the voltage(s), that will tell us, you have L2 power to the the element(s), you have the 20 VAC through the ERC, and your touchpad assembly is completing the program circuit,and the relays are closing and the PRB is OK.
If all checks and readings are proper,
You’ll need to remove the bake element enough to access the wiring/element terminals, program a bake cycle, and check for 240 VAC across the terminals,
0 volts, would indicate a loss of power on both L1&L2, a wiring problem to the unit(in the house wiring).
120 VAC would indicate a loss of one power leg under a load(either house or unit wiring).
As for the temperature sensor, everything there sounds fine, and should not be a problem, you may want to check for a resistance reading from each wire in the harness to chassis ground in case you have frayed or shorted insulation or wire to the chassis, but that would be a last resort.
OK, now I am not completely sure i did this all right but this is what I measured
I disconnected the yellow and purple wires and measured 0 volts on both.
Next i tried to measure the terminals while putting it in bake or broil mode but measured zero volts when trying to start the modes. this is with the wires disconnected. With the wires connected they measured 120 volts. Honestly, the F5 error comes immediately on so it does not appear that this does anything. I would get the same measurement with the oven off or with turning those on.
I pulled the baking element out (not so easy, and it does not appear to come very far out) and could only get 120v across it. with no controls on or while trying to turn bake on. I also noticed burn marks on the insulation around the left leg of the baking element.
I have not tried the broil element.
— Begin quote from isomc01;351293
OK, now I am not completely sure i did this all right but this is what I measured
I disconnected the yellow and purple wires and measured 0 volts on both.
Next i tried to measure the terminals while putting it in bake or broil mode but measured zero volts when trying to start the modes. this is with the wires disconnected. With the wires connected they measured 120 volts. Honestly, the F5 error comes immediately on so it does not appear that this does anything. I would get the same measurement with the oven off or with turning those on.
I pulled the baking element out (not so easy, and it does not appear to come very far out) and could only get 120v across it. with no controls on or while trying to turn bake on. I also noticed burn marks on the insulation around the left leg of the baking element.
I have not tried the broil element.
— End quote
Isomc,
We had the correct readings when we first started this diagnosis.
With the yellow and purple wires disconnected from the relay board terminals, and power supplied to the oven, you should read 120 VAC from the wire tips to chassis ground.
Do we not have that now ?
I’m wonderring if we have a broken or loose wire in the back of the cabinet, based on the voltage readings and the discoloration, you mentioned.
I’ve been trying to avoid removing the unit from the cabinet, but I’m thinking we may have to.
With the wires disconnected we do have 120v from tip of wire to ground. The zero volts was from the connection on the board to the ground. I was also trying to say that without the wires connected, I would try to program the oven on but still get 0 volts. But when I do that I get an immediate error message so I am not sure it is even ever turning on. Something shuts it right down.
Also I am a little confused, with the oven power connected, but the oven not turned on should I be reading voltage at the connection of the heating element?
— Begin quote from isomc01;354241
With the wires disconnected we do have 120v from tip of wire to ground. The zero volts was from the connection on the board to the ground. I was also trying to say that without the wires connected, I would try to program the oven on but still get 0 volts. But when I do that I get an immediate error message so I am not sure it is even ever turning on. Something shuts it right down.
Also I am a little confused, with the oven power connected, but the oven not turned on should I be reading voltage at the connection of the heating element?
— End quote
Isomc,
Yes, and OK, you should have 120 VAC from the wire to chassis ground, we’re OK and have one power leg(L1), like our first test.
You won’t have 120 VAC on the relay board terminals, until the relay closes, based on the input from the control board and key pad assembly.
Here is a short description of operation,
L1 is power in from the terminal block, goes directly to the relay board and elemnts.
L2 is power in from the terminal block, goes directly to the relay board,and powers the L2 side of the elements, when a selection is made.
When you program a bake cycle, and there are no fail codes the L2 relay closes on the relay board and sends L2 out to the element, you already have L1 setting on the element, with 240 VAC at the element, it glows red, heats, and cycles off when the chip on the board reads the correct resistance,and cycles the relay to open, and L2 is removed from the circuit, and the element won’t heat, until the relay closes again, and it heats again.
If I remember correctly, you did replace the ERC/Clock, and relay board ?
You may want to recheck your wire harness connections and make sure you did not miss a pin, on the connector, I have seen that occurr.
Also check the harnesses at the relay board connections, as well.
OK, thanks for the great reply. I have replaced both the relay board and the ERC.
Are you saying then that in the normal off situation L1 is still going to the element and that is why i am reading 120V? If I pull the baking element out, while hte unit is plugged in and do not touch my controls what voltage should I read across the two connections on my baking element?
Also, it was very difficult to pull the element out at all. I could just barely get the connections to come through the wall. Is this normal?
When you say wire harness connections can you explain more of what you mean? Just all connections or is this something specific.
— Begin quote from isomc01;354364
OK, thanks for the great reply. I have replaced both the relay board and the ERC.
Are you saying then that in the normal off situation L1 is still going to the element and that is why i am reading 120V? If I pull the baking element out, while hte unit is plugged in and do not touch my controls what voltage should I read across the two connections on my baking element?
Also, it was very difficult to pull the element out at all. I could just barely get the connections to come through the wall. Is this normal?
When you say wire harness connections can you explain more of what you mean? Just all connections or is this something specific.
— End quote
Correct, as long as the breakers are on, you will have 120 VAC at the elements. Wether you make a selection or not.
And yes, there is not much slack in the wires to the elements, it can be pretty tight,( I used to use clips to hold the wires out and away from the cavity, to do this test).
If you pull the element out and check across the two terminals of the element, you will probably have a 0 VAC reading(same power source). If you check each terminal to chassis ground you will have 120 VAC on each.
You have 3 connectors on the back of the ERC, J1,J2 and the touchpad ribbon from the control panel.
You have the same connections on the relay board.
I have, occasionally found that the previous servicer, did not properly align the connectors, to the pin connector on the ERC,or relay board, causing all kinds of false readings, and improper programming.
At this point, I’m running out of things to check, and need to return and re check everything.
The only check we havent made is 240 VAC at the relay board, with power applied
That would be L1(black on the front upper part of the relay board and L2(double red) located at the back lower portion of the relay board, with power supplied to the wall oven.
Again, thanks for your support on this. I double checked all the connections and they seem OK. I also checked for 240 on the relay board which read correctly.
I think I am going to go back through all your posts and make a new check list and go over it from beginning to end again.
Any other thoughts are always appreciated.
— Begin quote from isomc01;366630
Again, thanks for your support on this. I double checked all the connections and they seem OK. I also checked for 240 on the relay board which read correctly.
I think I am going to go back through all your posts and make a new check list and go over it from beginning to end again.
Any other thoughts are always appreciated.
— End quote
Isomc,
Your idea, going back through the posts, is better than mine.
(you may want to get an extra meter, so you can test both hot legs at the same time).
At this point I believe, you’ve got a power leg that drops out under a load,when power is flowing through the wires.
In the mean time, I’ll review the posts as well, and see if I missed something, or can get a better idea.
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]At this point I believe, you’ve got a power leg that drops out under a load,when power is flowing through the wires.
What would be the cause or fix for this? Is it the Power Relay Board? Should I put the old one back in and see what happens?[/COLOR][/LEFT]
considering that the lower oven works fine all the time, would this mean that the third option is the probable cause?
— Begin quote from isomc01;367723
considering that the lower oven works fine all the time, would this mean that the third option is the probable cause?
— End quote
Isomc,
Correct, check the L1 and L2 input wires at the relay board, and see if you loose voltage when the relay closes.
Then check the L1 and L2 wires out to the elements at the relay board.
I take for granted , you did disconnect all the wire harnesses between the relay board and the ERC/Clock,and check for proper circuits and position on the pin connector(s) on the boards.
